In Search of the Looser Cast-on

It should be noted that what follows is only the explorations of a craft knitter, with no formal training in either scientific procedure or textile science. The more knowledgeable amongst you are welcome –  and encouraged! -- to offer corrections to my thinking about this.

During my time as a (failed) knitting teacher about 15 years ago, students would present the matter of the too-tight cast-on. It’s a common problem, and the often-offered, handy-dandy solution is to cast-on with larger sized needles, or by holding 2 needles together. This is what I passed on to the folks in the class. Not surprisingly, for some --well, most-- of them, it didn’t work. I was stumped by this, so spent some time thinking about it, and playing with yarn and needles.

The advice is given for working the cast-on often called “Continental” or “Long Tail” or “Two Strand”. (In some cases, one is simply given instructions to cast on over 2 needles, with no information about the cast-on method assumed to be used.) Most of you will know this method. Make a loop with one strand of yarn around your left thumb, and then pull a loop of the second strand of yarn through it to form a stitch on the needle. There are variations on doing this. My copy of Montse Stanley’s very good The Handknitters Handbook (now out of print but republished as The Knitters Handbook) has several ways with some interesting variations. And a reliable source tells me that June Hemmons Hiatt provides very useful variations --for casting-on in knit and purl, and a variation using 2 needles which provides an edge with good stretch and recovery-- in The Principles of Knitting. (I’ve not read the book.)

Let’s take a look at the result of this cast-on method, in 2 colours.

We have the green yarn forming stitches on the needle. During the action of wrapping the yarn around the needle – no matter how you do it – the needle acts as a mechanical device for measuring out a consistent length of yarn to form the stitch.* This has a huge part to play in influencing the size of the stitches, how closely they fit together, and so on. (Which, by the way, are all components influencing gauge.) Obviously, the amount of yarn each stitch uses will also affect how far the edge can be stretched or spread out. Also, the size of the needle will influence how small the stitch can be. Try as you might, you won’t be able to create a stitch on a 6mm needle that’s as small as what you get with a 2mm needle. So your needle size will set a bottom limit to how small the stitch can be, and therefore how far the edge can be stretched. Of all the other variables that may affect the size of a stitch, needle size provides one that is consistent from stitch to stitch along the edge, unless, of course, you change mid-cast-on to a smaller- or larger-sized needle.

Now let’s look at the second yarn, the yellow one. This is the yarn that you wrap around your thumb. Its job, as it loops along the edge, is to stabilize the stitches so that they do not ravel. As is the case with the yarn forming the stitches, there is a certain length used to form these loops. But what controls how much yarn is used to form these loops and how far apart they sit in the fabric?

Well, once the loop is off your thumb, it’s all up to you. Unlike with the stitches on the needle, there’s no mechanical spacer to keep these loops from getting too small. They can get as small as you (and the size of the yarn) allow. In fact, if you really wanted to, or you didn’t know any better, you could force that loop structure to be a nearly straight line of yarn running across the cast-on edge. Or you could make the loops really loose. Or you might end up with stitches that are irregularly and unevenly spaced.

Now, for those of you who are working this cast-on method and finding you are getting a tight edge, take a look at the edge and check which of the 2 strands forming the cast-on is causing the edge to be tight. You might want to do this on a garment you’re working: something where there is some fabric worked above the cast-on edge. So hunt up a sock or a sweater or something and look. Go ahead, do it now. I can wait a bit.

And what did you learn? If you’re like most, the problem is not with the strand forming the stitches. It’s the strand that stabilizes the stitches that’s causing the tight edge.

So. Let’s consider the advice to remedy the tight cast-on edge by using a larger-sized needle or by holding 2 needles together. How will doing that influence the length of yarn that cinches in the stitches at their bases?

That’s right. Not at all. What you will end up with is the first row of stitches being looser than all the succeeding rows.

What to do, then? Well, with no mechanical aid like a needle to act as a spacer to affect these loops, it’s all in your hands. Literally. So watch what happens when you’re casting on. I think a lot of knitters are paying attention to the stitch being formed, and somehow miss what’s happening between stitches, so to speak. (One of my harpsichord teachers used to tell me to pay attention to the space between the notes. It’s like that.) Once you get a stitch cast on to the right-hand needle, pay attention to what you then do with your hands. Here are a couple of things to watch out for.

• Are you pulling the needle a wide distance from your left hand to get ready to make the next loop around your thumb? If so, watch what’s happening to that strand going to your left thumb.
• Are you pulling the left-thumb yarn too tightly, wanting to get it snug at the base of the stitch, and ending up getting it too snug?
• Do you consciously make an effort to adjust the space between stitches so that they are not bunched up or spread out too far, or do you just take whatever you get?
• Find a copy of June Hemmons Hiatt’s The Principles of Knitting and learn the “Two Needle Cast-on”, with or without the rotational movement between stitches.  It’s not the easiest thing in the world to work the first round if you’re working circular, but it’s do-able. Much easier if you’re working flat pieces in rows.
• And so on.

Now, I know, I know. Some of you are thinking I’m full of BS, because you do the larger-sized-needle or 2-needles-together trick and it works for you. You do get a looser cast-on. Well, congratulations if it works. But do consider *why* it works, and I’ll leave that up to you. Report back, okay?

There is 1 cast-on I know where working it with a larger sized needle will result in a looser edge. It’s the classic “Cable Cast-on”. (Unless there's something about this I'm not understanding.)

In this case, the needles act as a spacer between stitches and influence the size of the stitch. The method of working the cast-on both creates the stitches on the needle and stabilizes them so they won’t ravel, using only 1 strand of yarn. Try it out and see. Although many experienced sockknitters don't like this method for sock cuffs, it's one of my preferred cast-on methods for socks, because by using a larger-sized needle than the one I’ll use for the sock itself, I can get a stable and flexible edge. Haven’t tried doing it with 2 needles held together. I think it’d be a PITA to do so anyway.**

* At least in a perfect world. There are a few other things affecting how much yarn gets measured out in the process, including but not limited to how tightly you hold the yarn, how you position your hands on the needles, and aspects of the movements your hands make as your work.

** And someone is going to point out that Knitting Goddess Herself wrote about successfully using the half-hitch or backwards loop cast-on with 2 needles in this post. Yes, it will provided you control the edge when you work the first round. But I’ve seen people end up with a very tight cast-on edge because they didn’t. And if you think about it, what's the difference between the 2 strand cast-on, and the half-hitch cast-on with 1 row knitted above it?

In Other News

I forgot to mention in my last post that Danny told me that the trailer for the “Real Men Knit” video is available here. I recognized a couple of the guys interviewed: Danny, Kaffe Fassett, lace geek Gene Beugler, and Eugene Bourgois of Philospher Wool.

Have a good weekend. (I'm reorganizing my storage closet and sorting through old clothes.)

Comments

[JoVE]

That all sounds sensible to me. I've tried other cast on methods but always come back to the cable cast on (which is what my mother taught me though she didn't have a name for it). I agree that the needle acting as a spacer helps a lot. Also, just relaxing while casting on and paying attention to how tight you pull the yarn.

[Jason]

Thank you for posting this! It makes perfect sense. Now I understand why you told me to watch that loop when it comes off the thumb. I'll have to slow down next time to see how it works.

And you teach brilliantly! :-)

[Lee Ann]

Makes sense to me, too...I've always thought that it is the yarn that runs along the bottom that causes the tightness. Making sure I loosen up on that part evenly is a matter of practise, I find. Either that or remembering not to cast on for anything when I've had two pots of coffee and my child is storming around the house yelling that she's lost her favourite-whatever-it-is-this-time and my husband has asked me to find a document that no longer exists.

[Stephanie]

One of the other knitting men in that video is my dear Ken. King geek of my blog, long-time best friend and very upstanding knitter.
It's nice to see so many men I know there.

[Jane]

Dear Ted,

I can't imagine how you were a "failed" instructor as you are very clear, patient and helpful! I'm no spring chicken but you have helped clarify casting-on loosely for me. Thank you!

[Jayme]

(de-lurking here to put my 2 cents in, hi)
I completely agree that with your analysis of the longtail cast on. In addition to the Cable caston the knitted and purled castons are equally relient on needle size and not knitter behavior for tightness (and you can cast on in pattern which is great for sock ribbing). The Twisted German caston is another version of longtail cast on that usually makes a looser edge because there is more yarn between each stitch which makes a physical barrier so the stitches aren't too close together.

[Jim]

Ted, You have such a wealth of knowledge and a keen, analytical mind. I can't imagine you being anything but enormously successful at anything fibre-related! In the five or so years I've known you, you have proven to be a thorough, patient and, sometimes, inventive teacher. (you have to be with me, sometimes, to get me to understand what you are trying to convey...!) If you could park yourself somewhere central, I'm sure you'd build yourself an incredible following - especially of folks who were interested in learning advanced techniques or exploring interesting fibre-related ideas. When you're thinking about future directions, please consider making your fibre life a big part of it!

[Maryanne]

Ted - As one of your students, lo those many years ago, I am here to set the record straight (so to speak). You were and are an excellent teacher. You should be teaching more. I am still using techniques taught to me by you (hmmm...maybe it's my interpretation of your teachings that has caused your confidence level to plummet). And when will your next book be out? Put my name on the list for sure. And I'd be honoured to host the launch party.

[Franklin]

Failed teacher? I cannot and won't accept that as one who has learned from you both in person and by correspondence. Sorry. Your gig may not have worked out, wherever it was, but the fault cannot have lain with your ability to teach.

I notice that Mondragon is included in the line-up of "Real Men Knit." Is he supposed to be the exception that proves the rule?

[LornaJay]

Ted,

Agreed - the long tail cast on doesn't become looser as the needle size increases. It's one of the reasons I very seldom use that cast on....

However, to add to your excellent theory.

If you look at the cable cast on, as you insert the needle between the last two stitches formed, you are automatically creating space between the stitches, and hence increasing the flexibility of the cast on. As a result, I was taught not to snug up the last stitch formed until after I had inserted the needle ready to make the next one - it makes it a lot easier to be consistent if you're not forcing your way in between two tight stitches.

Following on from that, if you used a larger diameter needle in your right (assuming standard knitting direction) hand, you would create a larger space between stitches, and hence a looser cast on, but without the hassle of two needles held together.

Yes?

[TrickyTricot]

Ted, admittedly, I skipped the cast on tutorial to look at the pictures (I know I'll read it when I get home) and lo and behold, Real Men Knit! I am so psyched!

[LaurieM]

I'm totally with you guy. You are NOT full of BS. If it says cast on loosely, then I work the yarn loosely. Using 2 needles as never given me a neat or loose result.

EZ said in the Knitter's almanac that a long-tail cast on is really a simple backwards loop cast on that is knitted up as you go. So the green yarn is the first knit row, and the cream is the bw-loop cast on. It might be an interesting experiment to first use bw-loop cast on with a larger needle, and then knit with your correct size needle to see if that gives a stretchy edge.

[Jen]

I like the cable cast on myself and totally agree with you :) Love your blog!

[Gretch]

Another huzzah for the Twisted German cast-on. Now that I've got it in my hands (took for bleeding ever to learn it - though don't let that discourage anyone!! I'm mechanically challenged...)I find it's the one I always end up using for sox. I, too, learned the cable cast in the very early days of my knitlife, but I get cranky about it's slowness, due in large part to that mechanical problem noted above. Love your space! Oooo, Franklin, so hard on the dragon-man!

[April]

My stuff always comes out better with the long tail cast on - NOW if I could just cast OFF more stretchy grr, even with giant needles it's just wrong.

Yaaay, someone else who says 'ravel'! =)*)

[Sara in WI]

Hi, Ted!
I learned to knit with the "Knitted Cast-on." I didn't know there was another way until I was an adult when I was shown the Cable Cast-on. Except in rare cases when I need a provisional cast-on, I always, always use the Cable. I am never disappointed in it. You wrote an excellent explanation! Write a book! Teach a class! You've always done so well with your contributions to discussions at Knitting Camp I can't imagine being disappointed in one of your classes.

[dez]

Hi! Love your detailed post. I am going to print it out and save it for people I teach. To get a loose cast-on with the "cinch" stitches in two-stranded cast on, I do this really strange thing with my thumb, but I would have to either video it or show it in person. Cabled cast-on is my fave.

[Mary Lynn]

Many, many years ago, when I was 8, my grams gave me yarn, needles and a pattern for my birthday. She showed me the cable cast on and, as they say, the rest was history. I have played with other cast ons but always end up going back to my old and most favorite standby. Thanks so much for the lesson. I'll have to bookmark it.